Would have liked to have gotten this done earlier, but work sped up, wish I still had my books on Egyptology, but instead...
Let's take a look at Horus.
Far from being a virgin birth, Isis resurrected her husband Osiris long enough to conceive a child with him, reassembling him from the pieces he
had been cut into. (Though one story hold his penis was eaten by a fish before she was able to put him back together, they still managed to do the
nasty, and she herself was not a virgin at that point regardless.)
At one point in Egypt, pharaohs were believed to be the physical incarnation of Horus.
Horus and Set battle daily, representing the process of the sun through the sky.
Horus removed one of Set's testicles, which is why the desert is infertile, and Set removed one of Horus' eyes, which is why the Moon is not as
bright as the Sun.
As for the birth date of Horus...
According to this page: Link
The birth date of Horus is 12 of the Fourth Shomu, in Mesore.
And, while the Egyptians did have a twelve month year, they don't exactly overlap the Gregorian calendar, which is what most of us use at the
moment.
The birth date,, on this year, comes out as 9 of Pachon. However, going through the years on the converter, it shows that the date associated with
Horus' birth, while constant on the Egyptian calendar, changes relative to ours.
Calendar Conversion Tool
The calendar was divided into 12 months of thirty days each, with 5 extra days, whereas ours is divided into 12 months with 30, 31, or 28 days in
each month, with an extra day every four years.
That's not to say that Horus' birthdat wasn't on the 25, at some point, however it would have been a passing comarpison.
www.touregypt.net...
I'm not done yet, but I have a lot to do today, and I don't know how much more there is to read, forgot how fascinating Egyptian culture was.
Oh yeah, as for my religion, I'm not religious, so forget.
Personally, I'm nearly sure Jesus was not real, or the version we have of him is to spliced together with other legends, we'll never shift him out.
Zeitgeist must be truthful..., page 2[/url
privacy
reply posted on 16-4-2009 @ 04:27 PM by watchZEITGEISTnow
reply to post by allsop
If that's your source, it is a really bad one.
Alex Jones is a religious nut - however take that away from him and he'd probably loose all his subscribers that he uses that 'fear of god' bs to get them to tune in. And if he lost his religious bs, he'd probably gain a lot more support.
If you listen to his appalling interview with Peter Joesph on Zeitgeist 1 and 2 you'll understand that. That interview may have cost Alex in loosing a few regulars, me as one.
He still knows the whole bag, and is great at exposing that. It is his "FAITH" that does him no favors, at all - unless you count the money he gets from the fearful faithful he believes he shepherds.
It has not been "debunked" - wake up.
wZn
If that's your source, it is a really bad one.
Alex Jones is a religious nut - however take that away from him and he'd probably loose all his subscribers that he uses that 'fear of god' bs to get them to tune in. And if he lost his religious bs, he'd probably gain a lot more support.
If you listen to his appalling interview with Peter Joesph on Zeitgeist 1 and 2 you'll understand that. That interview may have cost Alex in loosing a few regulars, me as one.
He still knows the whole bag, and is great at exposing that. It is his "FAITH" that does him no favors, at all - unless you count the money he gets from the fearful faithful he believes he shepherds.
It has not been "debunked" - wake up.
wZn
reply posted on 16-4-2009 @ 04:31 PM by watchZEITGEISTnow
reply to post by RuneSpider
Although I still don't agree with how you are spinning it, I thank you for bringing your real facts to the thread - I'll get back to you once I do some of my own research.
We really should be doing this in a separate thread, and we are off the original topic though.
however thanks again.
wZn
Although I still don't agree with how you are spinning it, I thank you for bringing your real facts to the thread - I'll get back to you once I do some of my own research.
We really should be doing this in a separate thread, and we are off the original topic though.
however thanks again.
wZn
reply posted on 16-4-2009 @ 04:43 PM by cropmuncher
reply to post by thewind
What biblical history?
Theres no documented evidence whatsoever that jesus ever exsisted, just a book that was written by persons unknown, hundreds of years after the event's told, based on stories passed down by generations of people's unknown & probably distorted beyond belief.
Yes there may have been a jesus or a joseph that was a carpenter, just like there are johns that work in factories now.
What biblical history?
Theres no documented evidence whatsoever that jesus ever exsisted, just a book that was written by persons unknown, hundreds of years after the event's told, based on stories passed down by generations of people's unknown & probably distorted beyond belief.
Yes there may have been a jesus or a joseph that was a carpenter, just like there are johns that work in factories now.
reply posted on 16-4-2009 @ 05:14 PM by TheMythLives
Alright I will only play for little bit, I decided to rewatch it and as painful as it was. Here are the issues:
Zetgeist states:
Firstly Horus was not born on december 25th, Horus was born on the 5th day of the "Epagomenal Days". SOURCE His birth is around August. Horus was not born a virgin, his mother casted a spell or enchantment to bring Horus father Osiris back from the grave. After he was resurrected Isis and Osirius has sex and in that time conceived Horus. But Osirius went back to the grave after about a day.SOURCE Horus being called the Light, Lamb of God, or anything is not known to any Reputable Egyptologist. The movie simply lied straight to us on that one. Horus was never betrayed by Typhon, infact Horus never DIED! SOURCE and SOURCE. Horus did not have 12 disciples, but he did have 4 divine followers and 16 human followers, but 12 is not anywhere associated with him.SOURCE
Attis's mother is never referenced as a Virgin. He was not born in December. He was not crucifed. He was not placed in a tomb. But he does resurrect. It was thought that each winter he died and in the spring he was reborn. Its pretty simple to decut that Winter is longer than 3 days.... SOURCE
Krishna following the astological calendars, makes his birthday land on 19th or 21st July 3228 BC. He was the 8th son to Princess Devaki (so his mom was not a Virgin). SOURCE and SOURCE. No where could I find a star in the east signaling his birth nor could I find that he was resurrected. In a few stories their is mention of miracles.
Simply their really is no reference to a birthday. He had nothing to do with the number 12. He was born out of a rock, not a woman. He was also born as an adult. No reference that he died or that he was resurrected. But his sacred day was Sunday, but Sunday was only celebrated by the Romans.SOURCE
___________________________________________________
Jesus was not born on December 25th. The Roman Catholic Church put his birthday on that specific day, becaus ethat day was a Pagan holiday and what better way to combat the pagans? Before this however, Jesus's birthday was celebrated on January 6th.SOURCE. Also the bible even mentions that his birthday was in the spring.
Not at all truthful. You can go back to Bethlehem and check the star records and these stars are not even close to being lined up on December 24th. of course do not forget about the calendar change would make make the actual date, Dec. 12th SOURCE. You can check the stars yourself, from anywhere from 4BC to 1 AD and you will get nothing, these stars were not there. Check for yourself. Also orions belt is not refered to as the 3 kings except in rare Christian secs SOURCE. Also the wise men are not numbered, only the gifts given to baby Jesus. SOURCE.
I'm done for now, but I hope I sourced everything accordingly and that its all explained well enough.
Zetgeist states:
Broadly speaking, the story of Horus is as follows: Horus was born on December 25th of the virgin Isis-Meri. His birth was accompanied by a star in the east, which in turn, three kings followed to locate and adorn the new-born savior. At the age of 12, he was a prodigal child teacher, and at the age of 30 he was baptized by a figure known as Anup and thus began his ministry. Horus had 12 disciples he traveled about with, performing miracles such as healing the sick and walking on water. Horus was known by many gestural names such as The Truth, The Light, God's Anointed Son, The Good Shepherd, The Lamb of God, and many others. After being betrayed by Typhon, Horus was crucified, buried for 3 days, and thus, resurrected..
Firstly Horus was not born on december 25th, Horus was born on the 5th day of the "Epagomenal Days". SOURCE His birth is around August. Horus was not born a virgin, his mother casted a spell or enchantment to bring Horus father Osiris back from the grave. After he was resurrected Isis and Osirius has sex and in that time conceived Horus. But Osirius went back to the grave after about a day.SOURCE Horus being called the Light, Lamb of God, or anything is not known to any Reputable Egyptologist. The movie simply lied straight to us on that one. Horus was never betrayed by Typhon, infact Horus never DIED! SOURCE and SOURCE. Horus did not have 12 disciples, but he did have 4 divine followers and 16 human followers, but 12 is not anywhere associated with him.SOURCE
Attis, of Phyrigia, born of the virgin Nana on December 25th, crucified, placed in a tomb and after 3 days, was resurrected.
Attis's mother is never referenced as a Virgin. He was not born in December. He was not crucifed. He was not placed in a tomb. But he does resurrect. It was thought that each winter he died and in the spring he was reborn. Its pretty simple to decut that Winter is longer than 3 days.... SOURCE
Krishna, of India, born of the virgin Devaki with a star in the east signaling his coming, performed miracles with his disciples, and upon his death was resurrected.
Krishna following the astological calendars, makes his birthday land on 19th or 21st July 3228 BC. He was the 8th son to Princess Devaki (so his mom was not a Virgin). SOURCE and SOURCE. No where could I find a star in the east signaling his birth nor could I find that he was resurrected. In a few stories their is mention of miracles.
Mithra, of Persia, born of a virgin on December 25th, he had 12 disciples and performed miracles, and upon his death was buried for 3 days and thus resurrected, he was also referred to as "The Truth," "The Light," and many others. Interestingly, the sacred day of worship of Mithra was Sunday.
Simply their really is no reference to a birthday. He had nothing to do with the number 12. He was born out of a rock, not a woman. He was also born as an adult. No reference that he died or that he was resurrected. But his sacred day was Sunday, but Sunday was only celebrated by the Romans.SOURCE
___________________________________________________
Jesus Christ was born of the virgin Mary on December 25th in Bethlehem, his birth was announced by a star in the east, which three kings or magi followed to locate and adorn the new savior. He was a child teacher at 12, at the age of 30 he was baptized by John the Baptist, and thus began his ministry. Jesus had 12 disciples which he traveled about with performing miracles such as healing the sick, walking on water, raising the dead, he was also known as the "King of Kings," the "Son of God," the "Light of the World," the "Alpha and Omega," the "Lamb of God," and many others. After being betrayed by his disciple Judas and sold for 30 pieces of silver, he was crucified, placed in a tomb and after 3 days was resurrected and ascended into Heaven.
Jesus was not born on December 25th. The Roman Catholic Church put his birthday on that specific day, becaus ethat day was a Pagan holiday and what better way to combat the pagans? Before this however, Jesus's birthday was celebrated on January 6th.SOURCE. Also the bible even mentions that his birthday was in the spring.
First of all, the birth sequence is completely astrological. The star in the east is Sirius, the brightest star in the night sky, which, on December 24th, aligns with the 3 brightest stars in Orion's Belt. These 3 bright stars are called today what they were called in ancient times: The Three Kings. The Three Kings and the brightest star, Sirius, all point to the place of the sunrise on December 25th. This is why the Three Kings "follow" the star in the east, in order to locate the sunrise -- the birth of the sun.
Not at all truthful. You can go back to Bethlehem and check the star records and these stars are not even close to being lined up on December 24th. of course do not forget about the calendar change would make make the actual date, Dec. 12th SOURCE. You can check the stars yourself, from anywhere from 4BC to 1 AD and you will get nothing, these stars were not there. Check for yourself. Also orions belt is not refered to as the 3 kings except in rare Christian secs SOURCE. Also the wise men are not numbered, only the gifts given to baby Jesus. SOURCE.
I'm done for now, but I hope I sourced everything accordingly and that its all explained well enough.
reply posted on 16-4-2009 @ 08:48 PM by thewind
reply to post by cropmuncher
No proof Jesus ever existed?? LOL That's a good one, a lie, but a good one. Let's start with the bible, then the Talmuud, the dead sea scrolls, the copper scrolls, then there's buddhist teachings that refer to jesus teaching them, and back before the romans sacked jerusalem in 70 ad, the library of jerusalem had over 6600 scrolls that were ordered burned by the roman emperor, but there were about 600 of them that got saved, and then you have the scrolls of alexander. These are but a few of the pieces of proof that Jesus did exist, but I don't expect you to believe it, just like you won't expect me to believe your hogwash that he didn't exist. I do accept the fact that astrology does play a role in biblical happenings, unlike you and others who refuse to accept the facts that there are teachings that were penned down by ancient elders centuries ago. Here's the facts that be, and they are that God has a "Godhead", which is a roundtable of nobles if you will, much like what england has from their ancient heritage, but God is the supreme King! Believe what you like to believe, but the biblical teachings and prophecies have been 100% dead on down throughout the centuries, and nobody, to include you astrological enthusiests have any sort of an explanation for any of it. You spend countless hours trying to propagate a response that sounds both conclusive and concise, and yet explains nothing! We bible thumpers will just keep on watching prophecy continue to fulfill it'self, and the funny thing is, one of the prophecies is that in the end times, there will be a great falling away from God. Wow, cnn, fox news and others just reported last week that the numbers of avg americans who believe in God were down quite a bit from just 2 years ago! Hmmmmmmm, I guess uranus(your anus) and pluto aligned last week and figured that one though didn't it?
No proof Jesus ever existed?? LOL That's a good one, a lie, but a good one. Let's start with the bible, then the Talmuud, the dead sea scrolls, the copper scrolls, then there's buddhist teachings that refer to jesus teaching them, and back before the romans sacked jerusalem in 70 ad, the library of jerusalem had over 6600 scrolls that were ordered burned by the roman emperor, but there were about 600 of them that got saved, and then you have the scrolls of alexander. These are but a few of the pieces of proof that Jesus did exist, but I don't expect you to believe it, just like you won't expect me to believe your hogwash that he didn't exist. I do accept the fact that astrology does play a role in biblical happenings, unlike you and others who refuse to accept the facts that there are teachings that were penned down by ancient elders centuries ago. Here's the facts that be, and they are that God has a "Godhead", which is a roundtable of nobles if you will, much like what england has from their ancient heritage, but God is the supreme King! Believe what you like to believe, but the biblical teachings and prophecies have been 100% dead on down throughout the centuries, and nobody, to include you astrological enthusiests have any sort of an explanation for any of it. You spend countless hours trying to propagate a response that sounds both conclusive and concise, and yet explains nothing! We bible thumpers will just keep on watching prophecy continue to fulfill it'self, and the funny thing is, one of the prophecies is that in the end times, there will be a great falling away from God. Wow, cnn, fox news and others just reported last week that the numbers of avg americans who believe in God were down quite a bit from just 2 years ago! Hmmmmmmm, I guess uranus(your anus) and pluto aligned last week and figured that one though didn't it?
reply posted on 17-4-2009 @ 09:15 PM by thewind
reply to post by syrinx high priest
Christains, for the most part got duped centuries ago into practicing the pagan holidays or face death. Then they had to go underground to worship God, that is, the true christains. The emporer Constantine realized the use of christianity as a way to control the masses and further dupe and have someone to blame things on when he needed to so that he could steer clear of any blame by his own people.
Christains, for the most part got duped centuries ago into practicing the pagan holidays or face death. Then they had to go underground to worship God, that is, the true christains. The emporer Constantine realized the use of christianity as a way to control the masses and further dupe and have someone to blame things on when he needed to so that he could steer clear of any blame by his own people.
reply posted on 18-4-2009 @ 08:26 AM by thewind
reply to post by dreaken1993
I think it's in the book of either john or matthew, but Jesus said that the only way to God was through him, for he and the father are one. Jesus was God manifested in the flesh.
I think it's in the book of either john or matthew, but Jesus said that the only way to God was through him, for he and the father are one. Jesus was God manifested in the flesh.
reply posted on 18-4-2009 @ 02:42 PM by TheMythLives
Alright here's some more:
Now a huge error happens here and this also (if people were wise enough to catch it, debunked the entire first part of the film). It stated:
Wow, what a huge error. First it says that it is God and then it says that it is God's Sun, so is the Sun god? or is its God's sun? Now comparing this to Jesus is not only a huge mistake but a big fat lie.
In Hebrew the term for sun is השמש whereas, the term for son was בן now, if they were worshipping the sun why make it into "son" it does not make sense. The word for son was "sunu" and teh word for Sun was "sunne". In english today they made sound similar, but back in the day, their was a huge difference. Why would the ancients say Son? instead of what they actually meant, it just does not make sense. SOURCE, SOURCE, SOURCE, SOURCE.
________________________________________
Jesus, is mentioned in a few works of people. As- thewind stated, Buddist documents talked about him and a few others such as Lucian who lived shortly after Jesus, does mention him directly (Lucian, The Death of Peregrine, 11-13 in The Works of Lucian of Samosata, translated by H. W. Fowler (Oxford: Clarendon, 1949) vol. 4 ). Also Josepheus mentions Jesus as well. One in a very negative way and the next in a very positive light. SOURCE
Many people ask why he wasn't talked about SO MUCH if he lived that long agao and was so important. If one actually reads the bible and old ancient texts of that time, they will see that Jesus's followers were very small. He did not go around with 1,000's of people. He was only with 14 people regulary and had maybe 5 friends, outside of his disciples. Also, they crucified the man, the PTB at that time wanted to make sure that his story of hm being God's son was not passed around and they made sure that no one wrote about him or mentioned him in any kind manner, to promote Rome as the top authority.
But yes their is evidence that he existed, its just up to the person to decide if he was Gods Son or a really cool guy back in the day.
[edit on Apr 18th 2009 by TheMythLives]
In other words, the early civilizations did not just follow the sun and stars, they personified them with elaborate myths involving their movements and relationships. The sun, with its life-giving and -saving qualities was personified as a representative of the unseen creator or god. It was known as "God's Sun," the light of the world, the savior of human kind. Likewise, the 12 constellations represented places of travel for God's Sun and were identified by names, usually representing elements of nature that happened during that period of time. For example, Aquarius, the water bearer, who brings the Spring rains.
Now a huge error happens here and this also (if people were wise enough to catch it, debunked the entire first part of the film). It stated:
It was known as "God's Sun," the light of the world, the savior of human kind.
Wow, what a huge error. First it says that it is God and then it says that it is God's Sun, so is the Sun god? or is its God's sun? Now comparing this to Jesus is not only a huge mistake but a big fat lie.
In Hebrew the term for sun is השמש whereas, the term for son was בן now, if they were worshipping the sun why make it into "son" it does not make sense. The word for son was "sunu" and teh word for Sun was "sunne". In english today they made sound similar, but back in the day, their was a huge difference. Why would the ancients say Son? instead of what they actually meant, it just does not make sense. SOURCE, SOURCE, SOURCE, SOURCE.
________________________________________
Jesus, is mentioned in a few works of people. As- thewind stated, Buddist documents talked about him and a few others such as Lucian who lived shortly after Jesus, does mention him directly (Lucian, The Death of Peregrine, 11-13 in The Works of Lucian of Samosata, translated by H. W. Fowler (Oxford: Clarendon, 1949) vol. 4 ). Also Josepheus mentions Jesus as well. One in a very negative way and the next in a very positive light. SOURCE
Many people ask why he wasn't talked about SO MUCH if he lived that long agao and was so important. If one actually reads the bible and old ancient texts of that time, they will see that Jesus's followers were very small. He did not go around with 1,000's of people. He was only with 14 people regulary and had maybe 5 friends, outside of his disciples. Also, they crucified the man, the PTB at that time wanted to make sure that his story of hm being God's son was not passed around and they made sure that no one wrote about him or mentioned him in any kind manner, to promote Rome as the top authority.
But yes their is evidence that he existed, its just up to the person to decide if he was Gods Son or a really cool guy back in the day.
[edit on Apr 18th 2009 by TheMythLives]
reply posted on 18-4-2009 @ 04:23 PM by TheMythLives
reply to post by dreaken1993
lol, sorry but its the best I could come up with. But I am sure you understand what I meant.
lol, sorry but its the best I could come up with. But I am sure you understand what I meant.
reply posted on 18-4-2009 @ 07:03 PM by allsop
reply to post by watchZEITGEISTnow
Did you even bother going to that link, you're like the others out there who hate alex for being too much of a patriot :| arent you?....
It wasn't information from "Alex jones" it was from a user from the forum, there is atleast 9 pages to look through....
why are you attacking alex jones for, sure.... you could say he's a religious nut, but then you are not a supporter of alex jones, and you don't know that he doesn't practice his religion.... He believes in god etc... but yeah, get a clue.
Like i said before, do some research before you put the words on the keyboard because you seem to know nothing.
He needs money to survive and pay his workers + rent, what is your problem?
"It has been debunked, time and time again"
He may come off like he is fear mongering but he's not, that's the cold hard fact, he's just scared just as much as you are, but he is totally active... alex has reached out to millions of people world-wide, more then any lightweight religious nut could, I've talked to Alex plenty on air and off air(phone) and you know what... he's a calm guy, just when he gets worked up with all the # that's happening...
You would too, he has made 1 or 2 mistakes in the past that weren't big, but he has been a top-notch guy.. YOU NEED TO STOP THIS IN HOUSE FIGHTING AND WAKE UP!1!1!oneeoneeleven...
[edit on 18-4-2009 by allsop]
Did you even bother going to that link, you're like the others out there who hate alex for being too much of a patriot :| arent you?....
It wasn't information from "Alex jones" it was from a user from the forum, there is atleast 9 pages to look through....
why are you attacking alex jones for, sure.... you could say he's a religious nut, but then you are not a supporter of alex jones, and you don't know that he doesn't practice his religion.... He believes in god etc... but yeah, get a clue.
Like i said before, do some research before you put the words on the keyboard because you seem to know nothing.
He needs money to survive and pay his workers + rent, what is your problem?
"It has been debunked, time and time again"
He may come off like he is fear mongering but he's not, that's the cold hard fact, he's just scared just as much as you are, but he is totally active... alex has reached out to millions of people world-wide, more then any lightweight religious nut could, I've talked to Alex plenty on air and off air(phone) and you know what... he's a calm guy, just when he gets worked up with all the # that's happening...
You would too, he has made 1 or 2 mistakes in the past that weren't big, but he has been a top-notch guy.. YOU NEED TO STOP THIS IN HOUSE FIGHTING AND WAKE UP!1!1!oneeoneeleven...
[edit on 18-4-2009 by allsop]
reply posted on 18-4-2009 @ 09:27 PM by thewind
reply to post by TheMythLives
No myth, most atheists like dreakin don't understand the bible. That's why it says that when a blind man follows another blind man, both of them will fall into the ditch. He (deakin) will acknowledge Jesus though when he returns, for it says that all eyes shall see him and every head will bow! Amen!!!!!!!
No myth, most atheists like dreakin don't understand the bible. That's why it says that when a blind man follows another blind man, both of them will fall into the ditch. He (deakin) will acknowledge Jesus though when he returns, for it says that all eyes shall see him and every head will bow! Amen!!!!!!!
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